SEASON 2: EPISODE 05 TRANSCRIPT
Cody Fry
Cody Fry: A lot of my dreams right now are just getting to watch my daughter grow up. I've had enough of a taste of success to realize that's really not the thing that is going to make me feel happy with my life at the end of the day. The truth is, being with my daughter, being with my wife, getting to see my family and friends, that's the stuff that really makes me feel like I've used a day wisely.
Dr. Greg Jones: Our world is facing significant challenges, and at every turn, another conflict awaits. Yet we survive, we overcome, we even thrive by relying on an intangible but undeniable gift, hope. It fills us, connects us, highlights our individual purpose and unites us in the goal to do more together. Hope fuels us toward flourishing as people and as a community. My name is Dr. Greg Jones, President of Belmont University, and I'm honored to be your guide through candid conversations with amazing agents of hope. People who demonstrate what it means to live with hope, and lean into the lessons picked up along the way. They are the hope people.
Today's agent of hope is the incredibly talented Cody Fry, a musician and Belmont alumnus whose joyful, hopeful approach to his craft resonates with audiences around the world. His journey has been shaped by a rich musical upbringing, inspiring mentors, and a passion for making classical and orchestral music accessible to younger listeners. Throughout our conversation, Cody shares the viral success of his work, I Hear a Symphony, and the challenges he's faced remaining creatively inspired. His journey provides a glimpse into the mind of an artist driven by love for his craft and a genuine hope to inspire others.
I want to start by just talking about you, and the energy you bring to your concerts and your performances. You just bring such a spirit of joy and hope as a performer. Has that always been natural for you?
Cody Fry: I think so. Part of it is that I just love music so much, it's hard to not be joyful when you're playing music. I also think it stems a lot from my upbringing. My parents are both very joyful people, and my father in particular, he's a musician, and his joy and love of music was just so contagious. He'd just be bopping around in his studio making stuff, and I just always thought, that looks so much fun. I think watching him be so expressive about the joy he felt while playing music, it just seemed very obvious to me that that's how it's supposed to be done.
Dr. Greg Jones: Well, that's great. I want to take you to an evening that was one of my favorite evenings in the Fisher Center. Your dad actually joined you on stage-
Cody Fry: He did, yes.
Dr. Greg Jones: To help direct, but you, known as a pop artist, had a full stage of classical musicians with you.
Cody Fry: Yes.
Dr. Greg Jones: It was such a blend of musical styles. I saw you playing the piano, singing, and saw these classical musicians tapping their feet, and it was a way of bringing people together. Talk about how you've thought about music, and blending styles, and the impact of that kind of performance.
Cody Fry: Well, I just will say first of all, that night at the Fisher Center was truly probably my favorite night of my whole career, still to this day. I've played lots of orchestra shows since then, but there'll be nothing like that show. That was just such a special thing because the way I approached that show was with an attitude of, "If I only get to do this one time in my life, how would I want to do it?" It just could not have been more enjoyable and successful, and it was so gratifying. I think there's been so many moments in my life where I've looked around and been inspired by other people, and felt other artists give me permission to do something a bit different. I think sometimes in music, there's a tendency to herd, like, "This was successful, so I'll just try to find that thing." I think what's really the goal of an artist is to find, what do I have that's unique to say, and how can I uniquely say it? For me, I just thought, I have all these different influences, whether it be classical music or film music or pop music or funk music or whatever. How can I take all that and just mix it up in a blender, and see what happens? That's been my whole goal as a musician, is to just make music that is approachable and fun.
Specifically, when I'm thinking about my people, music students, I think about that person in fourth grade who's learning the flute but doesn't see the flute played very much in the music they like to listen to. I think to myself, I should make some music that uses the flute in a way that they actually think is cool, and not something that's just from a classical music museum. Instead of that, using the orchestra in a way that feels really relevant, and like it's happening right, now and something that they want to be a part of. A big thing for me is wanting to inspire music students to keep going in their studies.
Dr. Greg Jones: That's wonderful, and you instill hope in others to really begin to see that. You're known for great success with something like I Hear a Symphony. Talk about that, and how that exhibits who you are, and your own sense of being a musician.
Cody Fry: I'm just so lucky, the lightning strike, or the lottery win that happened to with I Hear a Symphony in particular, which found success on TikTok, and propelled me to be able to do what I do now. That was not some sort of master plan by me. I was not sitting in a room going, "How can I engineer this song to become really popular?" The reason I say I got lucky is, first of all, because of that, but also because that song in particular is the thing that I always wanted to do but didn't know if anyone would actually like. For that to be the song that really put me on the map, it just gave me such encouragement to say, "Hey, there is something about this thing that you should keep pursuing."
Dr. Greg Jones: And yet there's something, I think, that's really important in thinking about success, that when you try to engineer something too much, it often feels engineered, and maybe artificial.
Cody Fry: Yes, totally.
Dr. Greg Jones: You're doing something you really believed in, and invited people to overhear it, in some sense, you discover, there are a lot of people who want to overhear that. You're pursuing something you love, and that then connected with people in a really powerful way.
Cody Fry: I think about that all the time with something like songwriting. When I sit down and I say to myself, "All right, I'm going to write a great song," it never happens. It's only when I sit back and relax, and allow almost my brain to shut off and just let music flow through, or let inspiration flow through, and I am trying to get out of its way as much as I can. I think a lot of that, you can extrapolate into other things, which is just sometimes, the harder you try, the worse you do.
Dr. Greg Jones: There's a psychologist whose name is very hard to pronounce, who wrote a book called Flow, and it's about when you get into that flow that you actually feel like you're out of the way. And yet, there's also a lot of practice, and a lot of rehearsal that goes into that.
Cody Fry: Oh, totally. Yes.
Dr. Greg Jones: You grew up with music, and yet, you came to Belmont, where we're proud of you as an alum, a very distinguished alum of Belmont. Talk about your experience as a student, and fellow classmates, and how that helped you grow as a person and as a musician.
Cody Fry: What I tell people all the time is that the reason to do it is not necessarily the classes, which can help you, and the teachers, which are fantastic. The reason to do it is the other students. That's the whole thing, because this will be the first time in your life, and maybe the last time in your life where you're just completely surrounded by people who are as passionate about the thing you're passionate about as you are, and that's so rare and cool. And then, beyond that, the people that you make friends with, they become the folks that recommend you for jobs, and as everyone's boats rise, they rise together. Basically, every job I got for at least the first five years out of school was because of someone I was friends with at Belmont. I played in Ben Rector's band for a long time, and the way I got that gig was because the guy who was playing drums for Ben at the time went to Belmont, and was a year ahead of me, and he knew who he was, and he recommended me. I think that's the coolest part of music school, and just school generally. I'm sure this applies in other fields, I wouldn't have any experience with that. It's the people, it's the students that are around you that create this community that you can take with you when you leave. That part of the school stays with you even when you're not at the school anymore.
Dr. Greg Jones: Yeah, that's beautiful. One of the things that I've loved about coming to Nashville, and really discovering about the culture here is, songwriting is a team sport in Nashville.
Cody Fry: Yes.
Dr. Greg Jones: Ashley Gorley has told me that that's not the case in every city, but here, it's a collaborative enterprise, the co-write. That sense of community really matters in connecting people, and the relationships, even when you discover that people who are well-known really love to jam with each other off-stage. The first time I heard you was at a Ben Rector concert the week of my inauguration, and out you came as a guest artist. And then, when you performed, he came as a guest artist, and I thought, these are friends. They're talented performers, and yet, there's something deeper, friendship.
Cody Fry: I think all the best musicians, and the pros who are really doing it, they all recognize that it's still important, no matter how successful you become, it's still important to just do it for fun sometimes. That's why you'll see Vince Gill show up at 3rd and Lindsley. That's why, because if it sounds fun, it just reminds you, "Oh yeah, this is why I got into music in the first place, was this thing." Just constantly being able to remind yourself, "Hey, I love this community, and I love playing music," and just giving yourself more opportunities to do that, all the pros do it.
Dr. Greg Jones: That's great. You talked earlier about Kate Paradise, and the night at the Fisher Center, you gave her a shout-out-
Cody Fry: Of course.
Dr. Greg Jones: As a teacher. Talk about the role mentors have played in helping instill your love of music, and give you that sense of being a person who embodies joy and hope in the way you perform.
Cody Fry: No one gets anywhere without great mentors, and obviously, I had the best mentor you can imagine, which is that my dad was in the house all the time, being a professional musician. For me, talk about lucky, just having that in the house, and seeing an example of a guy who's made a career in music, it demystified it for me. I got to see what it looked like in reality. My parents were never worried. They always knew that a career in music is a possible thing, and that's really helpful.
Obviously, I had that in the house, but gosh, I had so many music teachers, starting even in grade school. I remember I got so lucky that I had this music teacher, her name was Carol Brose, and she just realized that I was really into music. I think she went on to win a Golden Apple or something, a Teacher of the Year award. Extraordinary teachers have followed me around, or I followed them around, I don't know which. That went through high school with my jazz band teacher, and the orchestra director who let me be in the orchestra, even though I don't play any of the instruments in the orchestra. He just knew that I loved the orchestra, and wanted to be able to write for it, so he said, "Well, we'll just stick you in the percussion section, and then you can be around it three days a week or whatever," however many times we were rehearsing. I would rest for 250 bars and then play the triangle, and that was so valuable for me, because I got to be around the orchestra on a regular basis.
Educators like that who can identify something as a student and say, "Hey, I can see that you've got something here, let me see how I can help that flourish," there are so many people like that at Belmont, too, and Kate was obviously the one for me. She was my voice teacher, and I was in Jazzmin, which was just such a wonderful experience. I feel like she allowed me so many opportunities to write for the ensemble. Another great mentor I had was Dr. Purcell, who passed a few years ago, but I just remember watching him sight-read a transposed orchestra score, a full score, and sight-read it on the piano. I've never seen anyone do it since then, so remarkable. I could go on and on about amazing experiences I had here.
Dr. Greg Jones: I want to ask how you balance your love as an artist and commercial success, because obviously, that's important, to be able to play the music and to perform. How do you think about writing, performing just for the love of it, and the commercial aspects of the music business?
Cody Fry: I'll shoot you straight. It's hard. I think honestly, since success came upon me, it's been more difficult, I think, to make music, because there is an expectation now that didn't exist before. Before I had anything blow up, it was like, "I'm just making music for me, and if other people like it, that's great." Now that I've seen other people like it, it's like, "Now, if they don't like this one as much as the last one, how is that going to make me feel?" I'll just be honest. It is harder, I think, to make music post-success than pre-success. I'm still learning how to deal with that. I think the things that remind me of why I love it is performing live. I think that's really, really helpful, because a lot of times, for my process at least, I'm alone in my studio a lot, and too much alone time is not good for anybody.
When I get to go out and play live, not only do I get to interact with these orchestra musicians and other musicians generally, and get to remind myself, "That's the sound that I love." And then, the audience is there, and I get to interact with fans, and it reminds me, "Oh yeah, there's real people out here that are being impacted by what I'm doing." I find that the live performance element of it really re-centers me. And then also, just having a wonderful home life. I love my wife, and we just had our daughter, Ruby, she's 15 months old. Being able to come home to something that feels really grounded, that's another amazing stroke of luck in my life. I just feel really grateful to be able to come home from weird experiences like touring, or interviews and stuff like that, and just go back and just be like, "This is real life. When I come home, this is my little posse."
Dr. Greg Jones: That's great. Congratulations.
Cody Fry: Thank you.
Dr. Greg Jones: I want to go back to your dad. You and I share something in common in that we both had very successful fathers in a field we went into, and that's a gift, as you were describing earlier, but it can also be a bit of a challenge, because they know a lot about your world. Talk about what it's like to have a successful father, both as an inspiration, but sometimes also as a cause for questioning yourself, do I have what it takes compared to him?
Cody Fry: Honestly, even hearing you ask that question, I'm just like, "I've never really thought about it that way." I know that my father is a real person, and a human just like anyone else, but he truly is an amazing, amazing father. I really feel like he's just been nothing but encouraging as I've gone through this journey. I think even now, I talk with him almost every day, and I find that the coolest thing is that there's really not that many people in my life that understand my particular problems. They just discontinued Finale, which is the notation software that I used for years and years and years, and he's used it for years and years and years, too, and to be able to call him and say, "All right, how are we going to deal with this? What are we doing now," and have someone to discuss just random stuff that is just so nice. It is a pretty niche thing, and to have somebody that I can call and just talk about it, that's so rare, I feel like, and I find it to be such a blessing. And the fact that it's my father, I know I keep coming back to luck, but it's just like, "Man, that is just lucky."
Dr. Greg Jones: That's beautiful. I would say, as you talk about luck, I remember somebody, I don't remember who it was who said, "The more prepared I was, it was remarkable how lucky I felt." There's been a lot of hard work that's gone into that, that's a real blessing.
Cody Fry: Totally, I know. I always talk about, Ben Rector has this great, I don't know if you'd call it an allegory, but he talks about how people talk about fishing a lot, where the job of the fisherman is not to catch the fish, it's to get out on the lake. You can't force a fish to bite the line, but you can be on the lake every day. Ben turns to me and he goes, "Well, why do you think professional fishermen catch so many more fish than regular people?" I'm like, "There is something there." The professional fishermen have put in the time to say, "All right, here's when I go out on the lake. This is where I put my line down. This is how I'm going to drive the boat." They learn all these skills, and they can't force the fish to bite the line, but they can figure out how to put themselves in a position to create the maximum amount of luck. That's what I try to do.
Dr. Greg Jones: Well, that's important to do. You're such a joyful person, and your performances are always so filled with hope, and yet, one night at Porter's Call, an amazing organization, you came on stage and talked about some rough stretches-
Cody Fry: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Greg Jones: Dealing with anxiety.
Cody Fry: Yeah, totally. I feel like in 2020, probably everybody had some anxiety going on, but for me, it really hit super hard. I was in the midst of the biggest tour I had ever gotten to be a part of. I was opening for Ben Rector on an acoustic tour, and then playing with him, and it was this amazing opportunity. We got four shows in, and that was March 2020, when everything shut down. I'll tell you what, going through something like that, being on the other side is wonderful, but going through it, it's easy to talk about anxiety and depression, and feel like you can understand it, but it is something that you really can't understand until you've been through it yourself. I feel like it gave me a whole new understanding and appreciation for what people go through when they say, "Hey, I'm having an anxiety attack, or, "Hey, I've been struggling with depression."
That is not a light thing, and I think sometimes, before I had gone through something like this, I was just like, "Well, you're depressed? Well, just don't be depressed." It's just like, "Cody, you're such an idiot. It is just not that simple." I'm glad for the bigger understanding of mental health, that going through a crisis of my own gave me. Lucky for me, I had so many people in my life that were willing to step in and say, "Hey, we're here for you." When you're going through something like that, you really see how many people are there for you, and love you. And then, the debilitating portion of anxiety and panic attacks, once I was able to move past that, now I'm able to remember, wow, look at all those people that were there for me, and they're still there for me now. That's, I think, really special.
Dr. Greg Jones: Well, I think it's powerful. We talk a lot at Belmont about God-sized dreams, and having those. I know one of them was the night you played with the orchestra. What are some God-sized dreams you're imagining now, that's keeping you hopeful?
Cody Fry: I've been trying to sort all this out, because I think a lot of my dreams right now, to be truthful, are just getting to watch my daughter grow up. I've had enough of a taste of success to realize, that's really not the thing that is going to make me feel happy with my life at the end of the day. Of course, easy for me to say that, I've been moderately successful. The truth is, being with my daughter, being with my wife, getting to see my family and friends, that's the stuff that really makes me feel like I've used a day wisely.
Come back to Ben Rector again, but he talked about a concept one time, he just said, "I think I want to write a song called Dreaming Smaller," because I think there is something within those small dreams, within just the idea that all I want to do is be able to see my daughter grow up. That's a small dream. That's not a, "I want to change the world dream," it's, "I want to change Ruby's world," but within that is also infinite. Even the small dreams, I would say, are God-sized dreams.
Dr. Greg Jones: Absolutely.
Cody Fry: I'm trying to discover the beauty in just the everyday right now.
Dr. Greg Jones: Well, that makes a lot of sense. There's something beautiful in your description about Ruby, and dreaming smaller, and yet, the infinite possibilities. Jesus talked about having the faith of a mustard seed. That's tiny, and yet, something really extraordinary can happen. As you were talking, I was reminded also of somebody who told me years ago that nobody on their deathbed says, "I wish I'd spent more time at the office." It's relationships that really nurture that. I want to ask you, if you reflect back to when you first started at Belmont, and we've got freshmen now here, or students who might start Belmont next summer, what advice do you have for high school students who are dreaming about wanting to make music, wanting to be in this business, who want to be agents of hope through the arts?
Cody Fry: Oh, man, a lot that I would say to my younger self. The advice I would say is, number one, I spoke about this earlier, but just make as many friends as you can. That's the goal of being here, is to just create community, so do that. Find your people, find more people, be the one that invites others in. I think that's the best thing you can do to make your university experience generally the best. In terms of how to be a better artist, I think the work is more internal than people realize. I think it takes a lot of work to figure out who I am and what I have that's unique to say. I think, if someone's going to listen to my music over someone else's, it has to be because there's something in it that they want to hear. If I'm just repeating something that someone else has already said in the same way, they're just going to go listen to that person. You have to do the internal work of, who am I? What do I have that's unique to say, and how can I find a unique way to say it? And then, just don't forget that it's about music. I feel like there's a lot of trimmings of music that are social media, or promotion, or having cool photos, and it's like, "Hey, the first thing you've got to do is get the music right." Just remember to focus on that, and try to not be distracted by all the other things that come along with it.
Dr. Greg Jones: Very wise advice, and I love what you described as you were talking about friends and community. One of the things I talk a lot about with students is finding unlikely friends.
Cody Fry: Yes.
Dr. Greg Jones: That might be people who play a different style of music, or people who are interested in the sciences or other things, because it just becomes more interesting when you're listening and learning from people who aren't like you, or who raise different perspectives.
Cody Fry: Oh my gosh, I just remembered, one of my favorite things I did at Belmont was that I decided to take a bunch of design and art classes with all of these amazing artists and people doing graphic design, and painters and stuff, and to be able to talk with them about how they see art, and learn from these design teachers that were amazing, I just thought, that's why you go to a college. "Hey, I'm getting some weird cross discipline experience here, and getting to interact with people that are not necessarily right in my line of work, but I have so much to learn from." I just remembered that experience being really, really fun.
Dr. Greg Jones: That's great. I recently had all our deans from all 12 colleges read a book called Your Brain on Art.
Cody Fry: Okay.
Dr. Greg Jones: What was fascinating was seeing the deans in our science disciplines and our healthcare, medicine and nursing and pharmacy and health sciences, and science and math, getting really excited about interacting with the arts, and vice versa. The arts are so important to mental health, the physical health, to just the way you see the world, it's really important. Well, Cody Fry, we are grateful for your time today. So proud to have you as a Belmont alum. Thank you for the many ways in which you contribute to the world's beauty through your art.
Cody Fry: Thank you.
Dr. Greg Jones: Thank you for participating in this conversation with the hope people. Our aim is to inspire you to become an agent of hope yourself, and to help us cultivate a sense of wellbeing for all. To join our mission and learn more about this show, visit thehopepeoplepodcast.com. If you enjoyed this conversation, remember to rate and review wherever you get your audio content.